Justin Lake (00:52.402): Okay, frontline innovators is back. I am so excited to be recording new episodes of frontline innovators after over a year where we haven't published a single one. I'm excited to introduce my guest today, Carlos Linares. Hello, and thank you for joining frontline innovators today. So happy that you're here and that we got a chance to connect on social media before today. Tell us about your background and what you've been up to.
Carlos Linares (01:22.951): Justin, pleasure to see you again and thank you so much for the invitation. So happy to be here with you.
Justin Lake (01:29.902): That's good. Well, let me introduce, if I can, I kind of skipped over, I'm a little bit rusty on my introductions here. I skipped over introducing you with your actual titles. Let me do that real quickly and then maybe you can kind of back into that and give us a little bit more detail about that. So first of all, you are the founder and CEO of FoodOps IQ and you are also the CEO of Third Wish Food Services. These are two exciting technology companies.
that I'm dying to learn more about and I'm sure our audiences too. So why don't you fill us in on what you've been up to these days.
Carlos Linares (02:01.632): Yeah, thanks, Justin. Yeah, so FoodOps IQ, it's, I I created this startup company and we've just been working on the last few months to kind of bring to, you know, food service, contract catering, facilities management companies, an operational excellence view linked to their business strategy.
And sometimes we have seen, I've seen, know, so many years working on the food service industry and retail, that disconnection. So as a CEO and what I've been working is having an array of tech solutions that can bring and bridge that gap.
Justin Lake (02:48.814): That's amazing.
Carlos Linares (02:48.846): And with Thorough Wage Food Services, this is a company that we are basically operating in the US, but we are also developing the European and Latin markets. Again, this is a new company. And we identified a niche where there's many companies providing AI solutions.
but no one with the kind of expertise and focus on food services. And we have so far very specific applications that are directly linked to what food services challenges and pain points are. And one is related to what we're gonna talk today. We call it virtual OPEX. And it's about bringing operational excellence supported by
Artificial intelligence.
Justin Lake (03:46.584): That's amazing. So I'm so excited to get into the specifics with you on the food service business. This obviously isn't your first foray into food services. What is your background in that segment that has prepared you to launch and lead these two organizations?
Carlos Linares (04:04.224): Well, I would say that, I mean, when I started my career in consulting and then in retail, grocery. And, you know, things happen, you know, and at the time, I mean, you know, I was born and raised in Peru, but I studied in the US, like came back to Peru, working consulting and then grocery. But, you know, things happen in life. And then I was suddenly working with one of the major, you global
contract catering companies in Peru. And from there, you know, helping grow the premium business 3X, I moved with my family to Brazil. I worked there for that same company over six years, then moved to a global role where I was, you know, working across more than 45 countries in Europe, Asia, Latin America, North America, of course. And then,
My responsibilities came to the US. And I've been focused on the North American market, US and Canada for the last 10 years. And so it's been an amazing career, having the opportunity to work with people around the world, different cultures, different ways of looking at things. But I would say that
Throughout my career, I've a lot of transformation involving technology, process, people. And what I learned, and this is something that kind of was growing through all these years, is the importance of the frontline teams to deliver the real value or deliver that transformation. And so it's been a journey and a very interesting one.
And I will say that the way I see things today, they're completely different from when I started. I can tell you that.
Justin Lake (06:09.419): That's interesting. Okay. And would you say that the perspective that's changed for you, is that changed because of your exposure to just a multitude of global markets? Or is that just that people have changed or is there something else that maybe I'm not picking up on?
Carlos Linares (06:26.582): I would say that, I mean, first of all, I realized that at the core, you know, and this may be applicable to different companies and industries, you know, at the core, the value is generated in the same way and the market leakage, you know, then the loss of value, it happens the same way in terms of, you know, how the company works and operates systems, processes, and people.
But there's a big difference on the details. And when you get into the details and how specifically that is specific country and the ways of working of the teams and the market operates and the laws and how clients purchase, it's all different. So one of the first things that I kind of learn is
You cannot have a one size fits all solution. You need to be open enough to understand what's the real dynamics. And different geographies, but when you land in the US, and that's what happened to me kind of 10 years ago, is like when you work in the US, you're working in like a multiple of countries, right? And for contract catering also,
mean, you are supporting your delivery services across a multiple of industries, right? And so all these differences, you know, in terms of what is the culture? How is the people that work on that specific industry, that specific part of the country, that kind of shapes how things should be done, right? So I would say that was kind of a big learning, you know, coming from a small country.
and getting into a global role and then into a very diverse country like the US.
Justin Lake (08:31.179): Yeah. What, so when I talk to business leaders like you that have extensive global experience, it always makes me feel so limited in my exposure because I've done most of the business that I've done here in the United States. What's something that might not be obvious to those of us who have spent most of us, most of our time here in the United States? What's something that is really different?
between some of the other countries that you've worked with and perhaps the experiences that you've had here in the United States.
Carlos Linares (09:04.832): Well, I mean, I think there's a lot written about it. I mean, there are things that, I mean, especially when you're living in different countries, right? Every time that I had to move, you have to reset everything. You have to learn everything. And the basics. I mean, what brand am I going to purchase? What detergent am going to purchase?
How does insurance work? How does taxes work? How does, you know, all the stuff that we take for granted that we've known for years, everything changes. And then when you get to the office, you know, things are different as well, right? I mean, I can tell you, even in Latin America, moving from Peru to Brazil, right? First, there's a language difference, Spanish, Portuguese. I remember being there.
I scheduled my first meeting with the executive senior leadership team and said I will meet at 11 a.m. It was 11 10 and nobody was on the meeting. I said what's going on? They don't care about me and then 11 15 and then people started arriving with the coffee and then everybody was smiling and talking having a lot of fun and said well it's 11 20 and we have to start the meeting right?
So, but then you learn, I mean, it's not always like that, but it's the kind of thing that you kind of encounter. And then you go to the countries and then it's 11 a.m. and everybody's already sitting there and just waiting to start the meeting and you're late, right? So that happened to me both ways.
Justin Lake (10:40.129): Yeah.
Justin Lake (10:51.025): Yeah, that's really interesting. Well, I definitely think here in the US, we tend to follow a little bit more of a rigid schedule. So I can appreciate how different that must have felt as you transfer from from one area to another. Let's let's shift the conversation to what we're here to talk about frontline employees, the deskless workforce, obviously, in and around the food and services business, there's
the majority of that workforce are frontline team members that are moving product, selling, delivering all those functions that are out on the front lines. You're spending a lot of time in your current practice now talking about what I always refer to as kind of that intersection between the physical world and the digital world where those people are out actually doing jobs. now, and we have been for a long time, but we're continuing to push more technology to the edge of that workforce. So tell me some of the things that you're seeing
perhaps some of the problems that you're witnessing that your technology and consulting practices are set up to help solve for.
Carlos Linares (11:55.627): Absolutely. mean, first of all, see, you know, mean, margins are getting thinner, right? So there is, and then contract negotiations with clients are getting tougher. And, you know, it's like clients are getting wiser and understanding how can, you what are the pressure points and where they can take additional value and.
So considering that, I think that in an industry where it's people heavy, you know, and depending on the frontline teams to deliver the service, you know, whatever you can do to make sure that the teams are the most efficient, that they're able to get into their jobs and understanding their jobs the faster.
that's turning kind of a competitive advantage, right? I see, I mean, because not only margin is getting thinner and you've got the clients pushing for savings and cost reductions and a more streamlined, know, contracts and ways of working, but you also have a very high turnover. And so you need to manage both. And we all know that a high turnover means cost. I mean, you are...
spend more money on training, you're not efficient, you're not able to deliver the productivity that's needed to make a good operation. with that, there are ways that you can leverage technology in order to empower the front-line employee and to make that adjustment, that learning faster.
That's something that I think this is the next thing in food service. It's just starting and before it was not possible because of technology was not there. And there's always been a gap.
Carlos Linares (14:15.028): what the central teams have access to and what the frontline teams have access to. And I think we can disrupt that with AI tools and bring that, you know, what used to take, you know, probably a big, big effort from the center teams, central teams to be able to help.
enable the frontline teams, I think that's going to completely change and be disrupted.
Justin Lake (14:49.613): So something that's interesting, when I hear you talk about the innovation specifically around AI, it sounds like you're talking about enabling people with better tools. Yet, what we hear a lot in the media right now, and in politics as well, is that AI is going to replace all these jobs. It sounds to me like you don't believe that it's going to replace these jobs.
So I'd like to explore that a little bit more. Like, do you think that technology will replace certain jobs in the food service business? And then perhaps the follow on question to that is what jobs will be most protected for the longest period of time, where it's just not practical or even desired to replace people with AI?
Carlos Linares (15:43.041): Well, in my view, I think it's going to be very difficult to replace the human touch and interaction that kind of differentiates contract catering, facilities management with other food service type of companies.
So my, I mean the whole kind of thinking and how we're delivering these new products, technology products through the companies that I'm leading is how can we make it so easy for the front-end employees that they don't not only know what they have to do, but also they can receive advice, know, on time, real time.
24-7 when they need it on how to either improve things or do new things or just remind them of things that they need to do or probably some alert on potential risks. I think the implications of bringing technology is not about replacing the frontline teams, it's about making them much, much better.
Justin Lake (17:03.191): So I agree. I think you and I are of like mind on most of this, but I do think that there are some people, was in a, outside of a business context, I was in a personal conversation over the weekend. And I think the media is getting through to a lot of people, making them believe that AI has the potential to replace, know, I'm being dramatic on purpose, but almost every role that's out there.
And an example that was thrown out is, you know, fast food drive thru are quickly being replaced by and this doesn't even require AI, but just basic, you know, mobile technology or kiosk technology where I can interact with a kiosk instead of an order taker. Because that order taker is going to have a pretty good chance of getting something wrong with my order, where at least if I do the the order entry on my own on a mobile device or a kiosk, I can be certain that I've submitted the order to the kitchen.
And so if that evolution continues down the path, then fast food locations may no longer need somebody manning the drive through or manning the front counter, because we as consumers can just go process those orders on ourselves and probably get better outcomes. So okay, I actually agree with that. In many cases, I don't think that there's much of a personal touch to be had there. But in more of a B2B ecosystem, like what you come from, where those frontline employees are actually serving a business customer.
What do you think is the future for them? Will they still be there serving customers or will they be like the fast food chains that are largely going to move to automation and technology to replace those people?
Carlos Linares (18:45.248): Yeah, my thoughts are, that on the, when you look at the transactional process of taking an order or selling or operating at cashier, and this is something that we saw in the company that I was working with, you know, it's just exploding, right? Order kiosks, I mean, in control catering, order kiosks, right? Purchasing through the app.
in advance and then go in and pick up your food, Yes, I mean that of course, but I mean you still need, but you know it's a big differentiator on the way that you know contract catering companies deliver their services is that human touch, the presence.
and make it a nice place that is impacting the workplace experience, and then impacting the engagement on the teams. So there has to be a balance. And I think, in my view, that's not going to change. I you can probably automate some of and take out some of the friction or some of the potential errors and
And maybe there's people that, and we're seeing that they want convenience, yes, but they also want very good service. if you look at the trends in terms of the brand development and the experience in the workplace, students, patients, know, hospital workers or companies.
the experience, it continues to be extremely, extremely important for clients, for their students, their patients, or their workers. Because of that, I see that the importance of having a trained staff that knows how to take care of the customer and make that experience better, it's something that...
Carlos Linares (21:04.104): every company should strive for. the other thing that I see is that, I mean, can potentially, I mean, there's also opportunity for upselling. There's also opportunity for, you know, loyalty, retention. That's a big...
That's a big thing in contract catering, how you make sure that the people that are on the building, they're going to go through your restaurant and eat with you and don't go outside. So, I mean, there are a lot of elements that I think will continue to drive the need to have a personalized experience and good service and that smile and people serving you and...
I don't think that's going to change, but what is the pain point for the control of operators is that, yes, we know that we need the team ready to serve in the best way possible to improve or maximize the experience. The question is, is my team actually doing this? And that's I think comes AI to help that.
Justin Lake (22:21.611): Right.
Carlos Linares (22:27.67): you know, on the preparation, during and post service. And so, and then in between and then other processes that are extremely important, right? And I can go on and on, but I don't want to detail on this, but we...
Justin Lake (22:53.285): No, I think this is good. Actually, what I'd like to explore is because I really do believe that the future of work is about people and technology continuing to work together. And I think to summarize what you just said is there are certain places where technology is the easy right choice to get things done.
under margin compression, we want to be more efficient, we want to deliver more cost effective solutions, there's a lot of ways to automate processes through technology. And where that makes sense, we should absolutely do that. You're also talking about the service experience side of things. And you describe it as largely a human driven experience, right. And so it goes back to kind of what we talked about at the beginning where there's this
this intersection between the things that happen in the physical world and those that happen mostly in the digital world. And it's the job of people like you and us to help make sure that those things can work together effectively. So I'm curious to hear from your perspective about, you know, where you are seeing AI today help augment but not replace those men and women on the front lines.
Like what if, you know, without sharing any proper names that you don't want to share, if we give me a specific example of where AI is actually helping those humans do a better job at those things that they can do and not subject to potentially replacing them like the kiosk would at a fast service, you know, fast food restaurant.
Carlos Linares (24:34.08): Yeah, at this point, I cannot get too much into specifics, but I mean, you can think about using like a generative AI tool where the frontline employee can access seamlessly. So.
One of the things is that now you can interact with a generative AI tool through voice and the tool talks to you. So if you can bring that level of interaction while you are delivering a service or preparing to do a service, whatever service it is, food, non-food, maintenance, repairs, preparing, you are about to cook.
I think that's where things are going and that's what we're working on through my company and this is something that I will be able to share more in the next few weeks or months.
Justin Lake (25:51.245): Okay, maybe we'll have to have you back on for another episode to tell us more.
Carlos Linares (25:56.359): I think that's for me the application and just by telling you this you're going to start thinking and imagine wow yes what if you're ready to serve a custom or you're ready to prepare something in the kitchen and you want to pull what is the new recipe you know there's a new recipe to prepare lasagna okay remind me of the new recipe that for lasagna
and then you hear the recipe and then okay I got it and then you can ask questions and have a conversation and that makes you a better cook and but also you're complying with
what the company is designing to be the best lasagna to be able to deliver the desired guest experience on that menu item, but at the same time, but probably maximizing the efficiency on the cooking and the ingredients and the yields, reducing waste. then if you start engineering...
that interaction, can truly maximize many key levers of a company.
Justin Lake (27:19.831): So I think that's actually a great example. And I want to, I want to pull on that thread a little bit. I'm going to be devil's advocate because you know, on this podcast, we're here to talk about technology adoption by the people that need to use the technology. And so even years before we were all talking about generative AI and chatbots and things like that, there was a problem with technology adoption on the front lines because people feared
the frontline team members feared that the automation would eventually reduce or eliminate headcount in their role. And so I'm curious about your take on how we ensure adoption of technologies like what you just talked about with a chef in the kitchen using AI to augment their role today. But given all the talk that there is about robotics and automation and AI,
do you think that the adoption of that technology will be restricted? Because people fear like, well, man, if this thing starts working, if these chatbots start working, they're going to take over my job. And today, it's the chatbot helping me prepare lasagna. Tomorrow, it's going to be the robot just making the lasagna, right? What are your thoughts on that?
Carlos Linares (28:41.974): I know it's a very good question. know back when I was working in Brazil I had this idea of what if we bring a smart kitchen? Many years ago. And you know in the way that the Brazilian market operates the contract catering companies
they usually run a full P &L contract. By law, the employer has to provide food for the employees. So the contract catering is a vendor that is one of their highest SG &A costs.
So they always want to reduce that cost. I mean, I need to comply with the law, give you a good meal, but I want to contain that cost. So I this idea, what if we design a kitchen that delivers the lowest total cost of producing a recipe?
So, and that needs of course technology. And I mean, at the time we were not talking about robotics, but we were talking about, know, state of the art kitchen equipment, right?
Justin Lake (30:09.677): So still with people, human operators, okay.
Carlos Linares (30:12.33): Yes, reducing the team. So, I mean, first of all, why it works? Because we did it with the team live. So we didn't design on, you know, we didn't build PowerPoints or we didn't do it in a vacuum on an office. We put up a team with operations, the equipment.
the equipment providers, key ingredient vendors and operations and the culinary team. And we worked together on how to improve. original, mean, and of course we were looking to reduce labor costs, right? But by working with the operations, operational teams, we identified that
We could also leverage technology to reduce risk in the kitchen. So can we take the knives out of the kitchen, for example? Can we reduce the temperature of the kitchen? And at the end, were, I mean, the teams, they saw, I mean, they understood that there was gonna be
reduction on workforce. But they were extremely supportive because they knew that that would give, they understood the value of putting a proposition like that to the market that would help the company grow. So there will be more positions for more people on different kitchens and so they start, they stop thinking about their own territory or kitchen and say yeah, it's going to be opportunity for all of
So we make sure that we took care of the team as we were growing. But what is important is that we reduce the total cost of delivering the food, but we also improve sustainability because we reduce consumption on water, gas, oil. We reduce the risks for the employees. We reduce the temperature. And we actually improve the front line.
Carlos Linares (32:38.966): the kitchen staff engagement tremendously. They were so happy working in an environment that was high-tech, basically the ovens were fully maximized and things were just easier for them to work on. So I would say that maybe in a different way, but
I think if you do it with the operators, with the operators in mind, and what is important to them, there's a high probability that you're gonna win. I mean, it's gonna be a win-win for everyone.
Justin Lake (33:23.319): Well, I'd like to explore the story because I think that's a great example. And I think what you just described, even though you didn't use this terminology, is the essence of an effective change management strategy of being proactive about thinking about what's in it for them, clearly doing a good job of communicating those things to the people that were going to be impacted. I think that the part of your story I'm surprised about, but
inspired and happy that happily surprised is that the team members embraced it the way that you described and it makes me wonder, know, tell me about a little bit more about the communication that you had with them because I think something you said at the beginning of your story was, you know, separating their personal agenda, their selfish perspective on those things that might have been very focused on them and kind of looking at the big picture.
I think what I've witnessed in similar technology innovations that the people tend to clasp, they grasp on to their selfish views more than the big picture. So you guys must have done something that was particularly effective to help raise their view a little bit to look at the bigger picture. Can you think of anything specific that you did in that scenario?
Carlos Linares (34:47.254): Yeah, I would say it was the
I mean, I just, kind of seeing the faces that the team would work with and just the smiles and, but I would say that being with them, you know, this is that, mean, the understanding that this was not something that was engineered somewhere and then brought to them, right?
And so I think that was for me the key is that they were contributing, they were thinking, they were sharing, yeah, this doesn't work, yes, this work. And then the team reacting and listening and then acting and changing. And with the one,
control environment. did a second one in the client and we brought the sales team, got a big sales team, and we trained the sales team. were in the kitchen. saw it and then the thing just exploded and there was no issue. I mean, I think the good things, know, good stories, they travel and
We make sure that we got everybody on video, everybody was talking, everybody was sharing their experience, and we made a very powerful internal communication where there were not just numbers on a PowerPoint. We never showed numbers to the Frontline team. We just saw their teammates talking.
Justin Lake (36:47.819): That's interesting. That may be evidence of part of what you did that was so successful in helping them understand the team and the very human element of what you were doing, even though you were bringing new technology to the situation. It sounds to me that you were focusing more on the people impact. And as a result of that, you got better engagement with the people through that process.
What would you say that going into that process you had already established a culture of trust and transparency? Because it sounds to me that in many corporate environments, I think even with the tactics that you brought in to really bring this proof of concept to bear, had there not been a culture of transparency and trust leading into that, it would have been seen with skepticism.
But it sounds like when you tell your story that trust had already been established. Is that true?
Carlos Linares (37:52.759): Yeah, I think that's a very, very good point. And thinking about it, I mean, it is like you're in a new role. You're in charge of improving the performance or effectiveness of bringing that transformation. It cannot happen overnight. so, yes, I can tell you, getting to that level of sophistication, right?
you need to fix a lot of things. A lot of things need to happen beforehand. And one of them is that trust. I mean, yeah, I mean, the story is simple, but the transformation is deep. And in order to bring it to, I mean, from an idea to something that you make it happen in a controlled environment, to bring it to one client.
And then to bring the sales team and we kind of we put a brand and I was selling the concept. I mean, it requires a lot of trust that one of the things I would say, yeah, there's a lot of work that has to be done. And I would say the culture was there because of previous work. But also, you know, we make sure that we were measuring everything from the start and sometimes.
Justin Lake (38:57.259): Yeah, yeah.
Carlos Linares (39:17.014): you don't even think about. mean, and this is something that I have seen, you know, it's people thinking about bringing change, changing processes or putting systems and they don't even think about baseline. Okay, where we're starting, right? And even after we deploy something, we're not thinking about, okay, is somebody using the tool or the following process?
And so I think the pre-work on defining, hey, how are going to measure success? What is the current baseline? And then after you made the change, what's happening, right? It's something that people don't usually don't think, or we should think more or get more concern about.
Justin Lake (40:09.995): You're hitting a nerve with me on this topic. so even though we've already gone over on time, I want to keep going on this because this to me is one of the biggest problems that I see with digital transformation. I don't even like that term because most of the time it's not that transformative. But what we're trying to do is transform as a business through the use of technology and people and process. But there's if there's no way to measure
the outcomes that come from that, then we failed right from the beginning because I think exactly to your point, in order to measure what's changed, you have to first establish the baseline. And this is something that we see in our business, we've had customers that come online at Skillful and they've been a big champion of the solution. But when we sit down for a quarterly business review to evaluate the business impact, what we've realized is
that our customers hadn't done a particularly good job of measuring the baseline. And so then when my team and I go back to that same client, and we say, well, are we moving the needle in your business the way that you expected? It's a little bit of a deer in the headlights kind of scenario because they're not sure where they started from and where they were trying to get to. And that's a shame. So we are trying to...
sit down with our customers now, when we onboard a new client into our business, we're asking those questions right out of the gate. How will we know in six months, in 12 months, in 18 months that we've impacted your business? What would have to change? And if whatever KPIs they come back with, we say then, okay, what are those numbers now? So we have to understand what the Delta is. What are we trying to go from and what are we trying to go to?
so that we can now have something that we can measure on a periodic basis. And so to hear you talk about that, it sounds obvious when we're having this conversation, but I agree with your assessment that more often than not, we kind of jump over the business metrics and we jump right into the technology piece and kind of forget that there was a business problem at our core that we were trying to change originally.
Carlos Linares (42:28.47): Yeah, especially on those projects that take months or could take even years. If you're running a 10,000, 15,000 site business, it's a multi-year project to bring the change. But it's also important, the second part is, I mean, I've been...
Justin Lake (42:46.572): Yes.
Carlos Linares (42:57.846): in charge of functions, mean supporting operations where I was, I mean a new system was deployed and say, were we successful with the system? Oh yeah, we deployed 100 % of the location. I said, okay, who's using the system? Let me find out and I'll send you the information. And then I received information, okay, system usage, okay. I mean, it's a bit low.
these people that are using the system, are they following the process? Are they, you know, logging in and interacting with the system the way we want them? And when you start asking those questions, sometimes systems are designed or configured in a way that they're not even capturing that information that going to allow you to measure if you're successful on system usage compliance.
efficiency and finally impact. And that's the four that I want to be close to 100%. And that's where for me the change happened and the system is deployed.
Justin Lake (44:13.157): You're speaking my language. So we do need to wind this up, but I'd like to ask as my final question, it's kind of a two part question. Why do you think business leaders often fall into the trap of not measuring the adoption and the overall effectiveness of their programs? And secondly, what would be the one piece of advice that you would give those same leaders?
to rethink how they go about measuring their innovation effectiveness.
Carlos Linares (44:49.574): What I have seen is that I think when you are setting up a project or a program that is a multimillion dollar, there are always, I mean I've done so many ROI's and business cases and internal selling on big transformations, you're always going to get pushback to reduce the scope, this is costing too much money, you need to cut.
And usually the change management, communications, KPIs, I will do that later, or it is not important, or we can take some money out of there. So I think that's my view, right? I mean, it's not that it's not there. It's not that it's not on the initial thinking, but as...
trying to get the project to be approved and to be deployed, we tend to prioritize on the core, on the core solution. And we forget the other important things that at the end are gonna enable the solution to be adopted and unworked. My advice, I think, I mean, like I said before,
And I had my errors, I made my mistakes, but I learned and you have to design with operations in mind and with them. And you have to challenge the central teams, finance on simplicity. I you need to make things simpler. And at the center, we tend to overcomplicate things.
And it's a challenge. If you're not thinking about simplicity, user experience, you're not going to deliver. So it's a combination of challenging yourself to bring a tool that is simpler, design with operations. And then sometimes we think about just the core process, and we forget about the exceptions and issue resolution.
Carlos Linares (47:05.366): And I see, I mean, that's another topic for 30 minutes, right? I mean, it's the, because of that, they just destroy value. And that has an impact that usually companies don't measure and don't see, right? But so that would be my advice.
Justin Lake (47:27.479): Carlos, I can't think of a better way to wrap up this episode of Frontline Innovators. Thank you so much for joining me today. Best of luck in all of your new endeavors. I do think we're going to have to have you come back sometime in 2026 so you can give us some updates on all the innovations that you're bringing to the market with all of your vast experience. And I thank you very much for joining me today on the show.
Carlos Linares (47:49.44): will be a pleasure. Thank you so much, Justin.
